tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1133916536511836970.post8117817184483238538..comments2023-12-10T08:21:16.075+00:00Comments on Religion Law Blog: Irish Abortion case 2Neil Addisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00489922704972084561noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1133916536511836970.post-73568131176526833412010-12-22T23:54:42.275+00:002010-12-22T23:54:42.275+00:00Responding to YONMEI
You refer to this being an E...Responding to YONMEI<br /><br />You refer to this being an EU matter however the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU it is instead an organ of the Council of Europe <br />http://www.coe.int/aboutCoe/index.asp?page=nepasconfondre&l=en<br /><br />You also say <br />"the Irish government needs to be made to follow through on its assertions and forced to provide the legal means by which a woman who may be seriously ill, can get the abortion she needs"<br /><br />Assuming for the sake of the argument that I accept the basic premise of this my question still remains namely what gives the ECHR to right to "force" the Irish government to act in a particular way. Once the Court agreed that there was no right to an Abortion under Article 8 then it had no right to go beyond that and enforce a "right" permitted by the Irish Constitution. That is for the Irish Courts and constitution NOT the ECHR which has has power to adjudicate concerning the European Convention but has absolutely no right whatsoever to adjudicate or decide on issues concerning the Irish Constitution.Neil Addisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489922704972084561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1133916536511836970.post-27724106181264941462010-12-22T23:39:42.057+00:002010-12-22T23:39:42.057+00:00Responding to IRISH CATHOLIC
As I read the decis...Responding to IRISH CATHOLIC<br /><br />As I read the decision there is no need to have another referendum and I suspect nobody in Ireland on either side of the debate wants one. As I heard one commentator say "at the moment Ireland has enough on its plate". I also can see the danger and difficulty of legislation.<br /> <br />Obviously the legal and constitutional framework in Ireland is different to that in the UK but I assume that it would be possible for the Irish Minister of Health to issue guidelines which stated in what way and under what circumstances Doctors could perform abortions where the life of the mother is in real danger, eg what degree of evidence is required, what degree of risk to the life of the mother is required etc. Such guidelines would presumably have to be OK'd with the Attorney General and/or DPP to ensure that a Doctor who acted in accordance with the guidelines would not be prosecuted under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.<br /> <br />Such an approach has dangers of course particularly of the "slippery slope" type but the ECHR and the X case have already put Ireland on the slippery slope so the intention at this stage must be to ensure that Ireland does not slip too far. I also assume that any such guidelines will immediately be legally challenged by one or other side of the Abortion argument, probably both, but at least that legal argument would be in the Irish Courts with proper respect being given to the Irish Constitution and Irish sovereignty.Neil Addisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489922704972084561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1133916536511836970.post-10622431866137279522010-12-21T00:16:12.316+00:002010-12-21T00:16:12.316+00:00and am even more puzzled than I was before as to w...<i>and am even more puzzled than I was before as to what right or jurisdiction the ECHR had to make the decision it did.</i><br /><br />You may want to consider this point; women are human. <br /><br />The Irish government currently claims vaguely that if a girl or a woman really needs an abortion, if continuing the pregnancy will kill her, she won't have to get on a plane to mainland UK or Belgium or wherever: she can have the lifesaving abortion in Ireland.<br /><br />But the Irish government currently provides absolutely no means for a woman to access abortion - no method for her to go via the courts or via a medical ethics board. <br /><br />The Irish government prefers that all abortions are outsourced to the UK (or to other EU countries). <br /><br />This systematic appropriation of other EU country's healthcare systems to provide necessary medical treatment to Irish women, makes the issue an EU matter. <br /><br />Plus, straightforwardly, given that the Irish government claims that lifesaving abortion will be provided, the Irish government needs to be made to follow through on its assertions and forced to provide the legal means by which a woman who may be seriously ill, can get the abortion she needs without having to travel to another country.Yonmeihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02664775236604734383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1133916536511836970.post-74270241573209585942010-12-20T17:49:13.932+00:002010-12-20T17:49:13.932+00:00Thank you for this. Do you think it is possible fo...Thank you for this. Do you think it is possible for them to impose abortion now on Ireland. But is it possible that it could be addressed in another way. I quote from a blog I read:<br /><br /> "But that “violation” does not relate to the ban on abortion as such. It only concerns the fact that there was no specific procedure in place to ascertain whether or not that applicant was entitled to a “lawful” abortion on the grounds that the pregnancy was endangering her life. This, however, can be repaired by establishing a legal procedure. And indeed, such a procedure, if correctly drafted, (and not cunningly crafted - my words), could be a good occasion for ruling out, once and for all times, preposterous claims such as that of the applicant in the present case, whose life (as it turned out) never was in danger."<br /> from http://www.turtlebayandbeyond.org)<br /><br />You see, the woman had every right to proceed with her cancer treatment and if this unfortunately meant the loss of her baby, then that was still legal and understandable, but she was not allowed to deliberately abort the child based on a 'what if' scenario. The irony is she was afraid the treatment would harm the baby, so she decided to abort which killed the baby. Can no-one see the nonsense in this?<br /><br />The deception here is something that needs to be challenged. Thank you for speaking up.An Irish Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15579269673300733353noreply@blogger.com